The Icon Bar: More trouble for VirtualAcorn (updated)

More trouble for VirtualAcorn (updated)

More trouble is brewing for VirtualAcorn after John Kortink has found that the VA CD comes with some of his Shareware without his consent.

John, author of utilities such as Translator, Creator, PackDir and creator of the Viewfinder graphics card, is a little upset at the inclusion of software that requires his approval before being included with other products. Although VA have offered to remove the offending software - Translator, Creator and Earthmap - from future releases, they did not initially issue a recall or scrap the latest batch of CDs. If they didn't, John was talking about a criminal lawsuit on the advice of his lawyer.

This comes just after the release of v1.10 of the software (and hence, probably a new batch of CDs), and Paul Middleton's continued attack on emulators in the Foundation newsletter of 8th February.

Update: the current batch of CDs have now been scrapped.

Source: Usenet

More trouble for VirtualAcorn (updated)

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Guest

Message #90177, posted at 21:05, 20/2/2002, in reply to message #90176

Unregistered user

Sigh. We didn't get a telly 'til 1977

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John Hoare

Message #90178, posted at 21:33, 20/2/2002, in reply to message #90177

Unregistered user

Oh dear - I'm really impressed with the Nettle binary compilation. That's cool! :-)

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Guest

Message #90179, posted at 23:44, 20/2/2002, in reply to message #90178

Unregistered user

I am not condoning the infringement of copyright, but when will some members of the RISCOS community realise that VirtualAcorn is not only an immense technical achivement, but the BEST NEWS we have had for a very long time? Much more important than SELECT, for example, because, as BETT showed, it opens up new markets for the platform and re-establishes old ones.

Sniping at VirtualAcorn may be a happy hobby for some of our community, but it serves only to show to the world what a crabby and disgruntled lot we are. Why don't we celebrate, rather than disparaging?

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Guest

Message #90180, posted at 00:17, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90179

Unregistered user

Copied from Comp.Sys.Acorn.Apps

I have just uploaded the provisional disc build for VirtualA5000 V1.10 to

http://www.virtualacorn.co.uk/hd.htm

It would be most appreciated if people could have a quick look at this
proposed build.

Everyone should note that no CDs have been manufactured with this
build and that a few changes will occur, as a few applications
may be added/removed subject to e-mails coming in/out before the build
has to be finalised.

You should also note that this is a proposed build, it's what we would
like to send out, but as always the finished build will be based
on feedback.

If anyone would like to contribute any further applications
then please do contact me, on the other hand if you see
something there and think we should have contacted you
with regard to it please do tell me.

Any feedback on the revised design of the build page would
also be much appreciated.

I would like to thank all the RISC OS developers who have contributed
to this much improved proposed disc build.

Aaron (VirtualAcorn)

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Iain Williamson

Message #90181, posted at 19:22, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90180

Unregistered user

I think that Zeridijah should be allowed to defend the licensing of his software. VA were clearly in the wrong . I'm not sure if they've pulled their stock of dodgy CDs, but at least they did the bare minimum - by not producing any more.

In addition, I can't really see how anyone's interested in VA. There's very few decent unique games on it, and running application software on such a slow system is painful.

PS. I'm only writing this because there's only *four more comments to go*! It's not like I really care about VA or anything.

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Guest

Message #90182, posted at 19:40, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90181

Unregistered user

Well, now it's only three more comments!

Mike

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Guest

Message #90183, posted at 19:40, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90182

Unregistered user

Come on! All someone has to do is to hit the submit action on the form a few more times - you could write a script to do that! Indeed, a malicious "user" could start clocking up comments and fill the disk using a script which "visits" the page repeatedly.

You Icon Bar people really are very trusting! :-)

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Guest

Message #90184, posted at 19:42, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90183

Unregistered user

What, like this?

Mike

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Guest

Message #90185, posted at 19:42, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90184

Unregistered user

What, like this?

Mike

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John Hoare

Message #90186, posted at 19:48, 21/2/2002, in reply to message #90185

Unregistered user

Well done everyone... now, are all arguments to do with VA over then? I hope so... :-)

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Mr Jake Monkeyson

Message #90187, posted at 10:56, 22/2/2002, in reply to message #90186

Unregistered user

Now, if we'd been organised, we could have had 2002 comments at two minutes past eight...

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Guest

Message #90188, posted at 11:42, 22/2/2002, in reply to message #90187

Unregistered user

That would have been an apt statement to make, although timing issues, combined with how many requests the server can take, might have made it too ambitious a goal. Anyway, we don't want to upset the generous Icon Bar administrators.

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Mr Jake Monkeyson

Message #90189, posted at 11:58, 22/2/2002, in reply to message #90188

Unregistered user

It's a good point well made.

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Guest

Message #90190, posted at 14:36, 23/2/2002, in reply to message #90189

Unregistered user

1. I'm sure that in the included software in question there is a phrase similar to "Feel free to pass it around" or some-such text.

2. It's shareware for god's sake, is JK really that upset over his little shareware soft that he has to go running off to is solicitors over this? Sounds like his in P Middletons angry-corner to me. Get a life - THE PAIR OF YOU!

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Guest

Message #90191, posted at 16:26, 23/2/2002, in reply to message #90190

Unregistered user

Virtual Acorn pointed out on their site (and probably in some text provided with the product) that most of the shareware titles require payment after so many days of use, to the authors. Combine this with the texts that the authors put in with the program itself to explain payment methods and you'd think that surely Virtual Acorn's actions weren't all that damaging? Maybe if you're that worried about being paid for software then you wouldn't release it as shareware? Just a thought, as I can bet around 80% of people don't EVER pay up.

Now, Middleton's take on the Virtual Acorn software. Now I would have thought, call me stupid for seeing things in a positive light (as this is totally against acorn user religion), but I would have seen this software as way of showing other OS users something different perhaps with a view to enticing them over to the NEWER MODERN risc os. Maybe with a little imagination, a momentary connection of the two remaining cells in his head, he might have thought about talking with them about attaching adverts, screenshots and pictures of new machines to the end of the Virtual Acorn program that shows the new stuff, mentions big products like cerilica's, new RISC OS advancements, maybe even RiscStation or MicroDigital could have been involved. Well, no this couldn't happen really because you see Mr. Middleton was so upset about RISC OS 3.1 going out that he too went a'runnin off to his solicitor to cry! How old is ROS 3.1? Ten years isn't it? Sad. Maybe he's just embarrassed? Ahhhh, that'll be it. He's upset because it shows modern PC users just how shed 3.1 is in comparison to modern computers and fears that his 'Select' is uncomfrotably similar to 3.1 due to lack of development and thus wants it removing from the shelves.

This is the man in charge of RISC OS's future, not satisfied with helping to shrink the size of the user pool, he is happy to frequently make big f*ck *ff waves in it and make everyone bob up and down like fools as the proper computer users watch and laugh from the big pool.

I (and lots of people I speak to) are sick of watching the RISC OS platform die miserably because of the bad direction, development, and marketing of the mighty OS leaders at the top. But that's all another story...

Now I'm not another regular moaner and groaner (another thorn in the side of the RISC OS market) I'm just voicing off my thoughts as I have in the past just sat back and gritted my teeth as things got progressively worse.

I'll end with a few small comments.

Paul Middleton - You have responsibilites fool, try starting with printer support.

Everyone else - RISC OS would have developed for the better, and quicker if it were open source.

Paul Middleton - I hope RISC OS goes open source and you return to shopkeeping.

Have a nice day.

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Guest

Message #90192, posted at 18:14, 23/2/2002, in reply to message #90191

Unregistered user

I must agree completely with the last two posts, especially the second one.

Unfortunately this platform is going to die due to politics and self interest from the people at the top. In fact I would say it's dead already: who in their right mind is going to buy a Risc PC for a grand nowadays? I would very much like to see Castles sales figures.

The simple fact is that this platform is now way underpowered and overpriced. And don't give me this crap about the 'nice user interface'! Microsoft beat it way back in 1995 with windows 95. Does it not have many similarities? The task bar and right clicking for context menus are just two examples. Then Microsoft went several steps further and made it a whole lot friendlier than RISC OS. Compare Windows XP with RISC OS: it's way, way ahead. Sorry if the truth hurts.

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Guest

Message #90193, posted at 15:42, 24/2/2002, in reply to message #90192

Unregistered user

Last post - well said.

It's funny that the RISC OS users STILL maintain that RISCOS is way better than Windows. I'm sick to death of hearing about stability, virus resistance and user interface superiority.

1. Stability
============

When running what exactly? Oh, the modern powerapps that RISCOS has? Well it'll be the modern office packages available then such as .. errm? Well there's some modern audio studio software isn't there? Ok, it's stable whilst running !Draw then.

User Interface
==============

Yawn, it's years behind. Sorry but I've shown it to other users and THEY LAUGH at me and say things akin to "where did you dig this up from".

Virus Resistance
================

Anything that isn't a PC is resistant to PC viruses. My watch, my cup of tea, my car, my house. All virus resistant - but they're not good computers!

I think it's all over for RISC OS. How RiscStation and Microdigital are seeing a future by investing lots of money in this new kit god only knows. They are truely off their heads. My prediction is this - they'll go bump after minimum sales.

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Guest

Message #90194, posted at 12:23, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90193

Unregistered user

"This is the man in charge of RISC OS's future, not satisfied with helping to shrink the size of the user pool, he is happy to frequently make big f*ck *ff waves in it and make everyone bob up and down like fools as the proper computer users watch and laugh from the big pool."

This has to be one of the most amusing things written on this site for ages. :-) A most fitting analogy, indeed.

The typical "small pool user" claiming to his friends that he has been in the big pool, seen it for himself, and even been to the bottom of the 3m deep section, imparting such tales while still wearing his armbands, can be seen frequently on the various comp.sys.acorn.* newsgroups. Real "big pool users" can see that such types have at best been in the shallow end, and only then with parental supervision...

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Mark Scholes

Message #90195, posted at 12:55, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90194

Unregistered user

1. Stability
NT/Unix based systems are generally more stable in the uncrashable sense of the word, but what's one (or 100) reset(s) compared to having to reinstall your OS because only an expert knows what the heck the OS/installers are doing?

2. User Interface
RISC OS + Director is a miles more efficient GUI than any Windows/Mac/Unix GUI. So what if it doesn't look pretty? I've seen no convincing argument for transparent windows, animated whatever, fading menus.

RISC OS GUI is consistant (unlike X apps), makes proper use of all 3 mouse buttons (unlike MacOS), isn't brain dead (unlike Windows).

3. Virus resistant
It's got less viruses than Windows/Mac/Unix, and is a better computer than watch, cup of tea, car, house. I haven't seen a virus on RISC OS since Acorn put VProtect in the boot sequence.

However there's little chance that RISC OS will be updated sufficiently to stay in the game, so I propose cloning the RISC OS environment (GUI, CLI (with all the great unixy things too), and general disc structure (/riscos or whatever) on UNIX. Then we can use RISC OS on any computer. This wouldn't run RISC OS apps (at first anyway), but be more an extenstion of ROX.

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Guest

Message #90196, posted at 13:24, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90195

Unregistered user

"1. Stability
NT/Unix based systems are generally more stable in the uncrashable sense of the word, but what's one (or 100) reset(s) compared to having to reinstall your OS because only an expert knows what the heck the OS/installers are doing?"

I've only ever *had* to reinstall Linux once, and that was because I was messing around with partitions. It was a reasonable thing to do anyway because I wanted rid of my NT installation and reinstallation gave me, as a Linux beginner at that time, the easiest possibilities of reconfiguring my partitions.

Do you honestly believe that Linux, Solaris, <other commercial UNIXes>, NT (inc. 2000, XP) users go around reinstalling all the time? Let me let you into a secret - it doesn't happen that way in the big pool.

These days I get irritated if the operating system crashes at all - remember that if you're doing work, you don't want it to disappear because the OS is sh|te.

"2. User Interface
RISC OS + Director is a miles more efficient GUI than any Windows/Mac/Unix GUI. So what if it doesn't look pretty? I've seen no convincing argument for transparent windows, animated whatever, fading menus."

Well, most people who have optimised their environment probably don't see the argument for transparent, animated gadgets either, but then an integrated desktop environment with decent help and documentation is arguably a fair amount more than what you get with RISC OS Desktop + Director.

"RISC OS GUI is consistant (unlike X apps), makes proper use of all 3 mouse buttons (unlike MacOS), isn't brain dead (unlike Windows)."

That old chestnut: "X apps are all inconsistent". Well, "X apps" are consolidating, and with those integrated environments mentioned above, such inconsistencies are largely on their way out, at least for users who use mainstream applications for a particular mainstream environment.

"3. Virus resistant
It's got less viruses than Windows/Mac/Unix, and is a better computer than watch, cup of tea, car, house. I haven't seen a virus on RISC OS since Acorn put VProtect in the boot sequence."

I suppose most of the virus authors for RISC OS took their GCSEs and left school long ago - school being the only place where any "respect" for virus authorship was likely to be forthcoming.

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John Hoare

Message #90197, posted at 13:50, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90196

Unregistered user

Actually, I doubt schools are the *only* place that there is respect for virus writers. Actually, I believe you are missing out entire communities...

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Guest

Message #90198, posted at 13:56, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90197

Unregistered user

just a note on viruses. Is it not proportional to the size of the user base anyway?

For instance if RISCOS were anywhere near as big as other platforms then the number of targets would be greater therefor more viruses would undoubtedly be written.

So you could have it only one way. Small user base, little developments as a result and few viruses. Or popularity of platform and loads of viruses.

And before you give me all that cr@p about the solidness of the OS because it is in ROM may I remind you of the amount of the OS that is on disc and not forgetting personal data that is on disc also.

Now I'm not anti Acorn here by the way. I own nearly every model myself but I'm fed up of people not being honest enough to admit downfalls in them. And in this age of computing there are now more downfalls than plus points. The failure to admit downsides only stops development.

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Guest

Message #90199, posted at 14:14, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90198

Unregistered user

On RISC OS, the principal audience for virus writers was probably their school chums: "Look, Jenkins! Teacher's work has just been deleted by Harris-Potter's new ultra-virus!" I somehow doubt that the fictional "gang of three" concerned then went on, after school, to a hacker-fest in downtown Rotterdam where they swilled cheap vodka and cracked Pentagon computer system security.

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John Hoare

Message #90200, posted at 14:29, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90199

Unregistered user

Well, we don't know where they ended up - people can make astonishing U-turns and end up in places nobody expects - least of all themselves...

It would be interesting to read about the behind the scenes history of RISC OS viruses - although I doubt you could track down a lot of information (besides the info Pineapple has). What's the latest RISC OS virus to be written?

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Guest

Message #90201, posted at 14:35, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90200

Unregistered user

I should have written "after school that day" to make my meaning clearer.

Anyone want to ask Paul Vigay about the virus written with his name on it? ;-)

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John Hoare

Message #90202, posted at 14:49, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90201

Unregistered user

No! :-)

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John Duffell

Message #90203, posted at 16:26, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90202

Unregistered user

User interface is years behind? Does guest use the same RISC OS or did someone do *configure language 0 on his machine before he bought it?

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Annraoi

Message #90204, posted at 19:14, 25/2/2002, in reply to message #90203

Unregistered user

Well depends on how you define "stability".

For an instance shutting down Windows2000 (sounds simple doesn't it). Well guess again, if you bought the just launched version (not SP2) then shutdown was like playing Russian routette.

What happened was on a modern computer the machine would begin flusing unwritten cache (then shut down). The problem was Win2K used to pull the plug before all the writing was done (oops).

This (on several occasions) resulted in an unbootable machine (even the ERD wouldn't work). After a multi-hour download SP2 was installed and it (seems) to have fixed the problem

Point is this how long elapsed between Win2k and SP2 and how good did the users of this massively overpriced OS feel when they needed to do endless re-installs.

No RISC OS has none of this, it may not be flawless, but it represents a reasonable compromise between stability - usefulness and utility to make it a worthwhile alternative to the others.

Before any Linux heads get smug about the Win2K problem think long and hard before making any smart remarks (to quote "let ye without sin cast the first stone").

Regards

Annraoi

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Rich Mackin

Message #90205, posted at 00:02, 26/2/2002, in reply to message #90204

Unregistered user

RISC OS is years behind - get beneath the GUI, and to be honest it's not that far removed from the old BBC OS - single-tasking, centered around a command line. Also, the GUI isn't anything to shout about anymore - one simple press of F12 and anyone could wreak havoc, pop open the Task Manager and you're "under the hood" - neither of which are particularly attractive to schools. Also the GUI *still* relies on co-operative multi-tasking. If an app freezes on my Windows box, Ctrl-Alt-Del lets me close it. Granted, Watchdog adds similar functionality to RO, but it shows how easily the OS can fall down at the hands of a badly-written application.

There was a time when RISC OS, and the Archimedes hardware it ran on, once led the field with a compact ROM-based OS with an inbuilt GUI. But Acorn rested on their laurels, and allowed Microsoft, Apple, et al to catch up and overtake them. Now RISC OS is struggling, and faces potential exinction within 12-24 months.

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Annraoi

Message #90206, posted at 19:19, 26/2/2002, in reply to message #90205

Unregistered user

So you find <ctrl><alt><del> always works then ?

Interesting.

I would agree that RISC OS can be improved, the problem is that simply moving it to be more like windows (or MacOS) is NOT the way to do it.

Windows has numerous failings and often new versions are launched with miriads of unpublished flaws (Win2K for example was launched with over 62,000 known bugs). Just COUNT the service packs - for NT there was SP1,2,3,4,5,6 and 6a; Win2K had SP 1 and 2 and XP (we'll see). Each is an admission that the beta testers (the public) had problems with the current shakey incarnation.

Not being able to shut your machine down without running the risk of nuking your harddisk seems to be a BIT of a problem (unless of course slagging off RISC OS makes it less of a problem that is).

Regards

Annraoi

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